Why did we choose this topic?
Children's bloody hand prints on the wall
at a rattlesnake roundup.
at a rattlesnake roundup.
After some deliberation on what interview topic we wanted to pursue we decided that the Rattlesnake Roundups needed a lot more light shed on them.
We took some time to look at some roundup sites, and the Sweetwater Roundup just took place in March, and boasts over 40,000 visitors and the 2012 round up captured and killed 1,664 lbs of rattlesnakes. Their photos proudly display children and adults skinning snakes. Some people were adorned in black plastic bags for fear of getting blood on themselves, others like the children were not. The children dipped their hands in the blood and made hand prints on the wall and autographed their names below after they killed their snakes and skinned them. Boasted on the Sweetwater site "Fun for the Whole Family"...hard to imagine.
So we decided to interview John F. Taylor, author and creator of http://reptileapartment.com/ as well as published author of such books as Prescription for Leopard Gecko Captive Care, Venom in Captivity, The Taming of the Dragon and Uromastyx - A Complete Guide to Uromastyx he was kind enough do an interview with us regarding rattle snake roundups.
We took some time to look at some roundup sites, and the Sweetwater Roundup just took place in March, and boasts over 40,000 visitors and the 2012 round up captured and killed 1,664 lbs of rattlesnakes. Their photos proudly display children and adults skinning snakes. Some people were adorned in black plastic bags for fear of getting blood on themselves, others like the children were not. The children dipped their hands in the blood and made hand prints on the wall and autographed their names below after they killed their snakes and skinned them. Boasted on the Sweetwater site "Fun for the Whole Family"...hard to imagine.
So we decided to interview John F. Taylor, author and creator of http://reptileapartment.com/ as well as published author of such books as Prescription for Leopard Gecko Captive Care, Venom in Captivity, The Taming of the Dragon and Uromastyx - A Complete Guide to Uromastyx he was kind enough do an interview with us regarding rattle snake roundups.
Question: I have had the pleasure of talking to you a bit John, but would you introduce yourself to our readers and describe how you became interested in reptiles, herpetoculture and writing?
Answer: How I became interested in reptiles? Hmm well, that's actually a loaded question. If I'm totally honest, it was originally for the money. While that saddens me deeply now looking back it is the honest answer. My mentor pulled a cash roll out of his pocket after a show once and I wanted to make that same money. I got into breeding and did a year or two of various colubrid snakes and various lizards. During that time, I figured out I wasn't into breeding. I mean the money was great don't get me wrong, but my heart wasn't there. The reptiles to me weren't just reptiles, they were animals I spent time with and I couldn't look at them as a commodity. Then and there, I decided that I would rather help people keep their own reptiles healthy and do so with proper information instead of what was being given out currently which was generally speaking 'guess work' by people who didn't have experience keeping reptiles but had read a care sheet.
Question: What are the most common myths about rattlesnakes that you often hear repeated?
Answer: OH BOY! Here we go...
1) Baby rattlesnakes are more dangerous because they cannot control their venom delivery
Fact: Baby rattlesnakes and all venomous snakes can control their venom when born.
Fact: Venom glands are directly proportionate to the size of the snake (Meaning in visual terms, if the adult has the venom gland the size of say a kidney bean. Babies would have venom gland the size of a BB.)
2) You can tell how old a rattlesnake is by counting the buttons of its tail
Fact: Rattlesnakes lose buttons all the time due to their terrain or even a potential predator taking one off.
Fact: Each time a rattlesnake sheds its skin it adds a button. Rattlesnakes can shed multiple times during the year depending on resources available.
Those would be the most often repeated outside of the occasional person who explains to me (typically an adult male for some reason) 3) "I was chased by a rattlesnake..."
Fact: Reptiles in the wild will generally avoid human contact and more than likely what has occurred is the human in question has stumbled across the snakes point of only escape and therefore perceives the snake as chasing them.
Question: What is your most interesting story involving a rattlesnake?
Answer: I would have to say most non-reptile people wouldn't get this story nor will those who don't know me personally. That said I will do my best to explain why this humorous afterwards. So here goes, Graham my long time field herping partner and I were in one of our typical herping spots and we came across a baby Southern Pacific rattlesnake Crotalus viridis helleri. We had come across these all the time. Now then at this time Graham and I were doing educational talks for various organizations in which we explained the native reptiles extolling their virtues as well as how to avoid rattlesnakes and training people who might encounter them ( Fire fighters, public workers as in Parks and Recreation staff) how to safely remove them from public places. In this training as well we spoke about treatment of snake bites in the field until medical services could be reached.
So we are looking at this baby rattlesnake and this brilliant idea hits me!
"Graham, you know we tell people about getting envenomated and such but neither of has ever been envenomated before. One of us should take a hit from this baby so we can talk realistically about what it's like."
"That's brilliant, the truck is close by and I could get you to the hospital in minutes, so go ahead." Graham says encouragingly.
"OK here it goes...' I say reaching down slowly but careful to stay out of strike range. "Wait, what if I have an allergic reaction?"
"It'll be ok we are close to the hospital."
"Oh OK. I respond reaching down again. But what if I have a serious reaction man, I could have irreparable damage."
"Oh yeah, I suppose you're right. That would kinda suck."
We went back and forth like this for nearly ten minutes and I obviously made the right decision that while it would be great to relay the story of "How I took one for the team" losing my life in the pursuit of experience wasn't exactly worth the risk. Now to those who know me, they know that I am very careful to only speak on topics that I have experienced so this would be slightly amusing to my friends as they could see me and Graham talking to one another no more than inches away from a venomous snake and both of trying to convince me that this was a great idea.
Question: What is a rattlesnake round up? Why do they happen?
Answer: A rattlesnake roundup is essentially a wholesale slaughter of thousands of pounds (average weight of adult rattlesnake 3-5 pounds) of rattlesnakes. Why do they happen is somewhat of a mystery really, From what I have been able to tell from my own research these started because cattle ranchers back when were losing cattle to rattlesnake envenomations. Probably during the time they were doing the doing the drive to market where free range cattle were being herded to the location where they were to be sold off to market. Most cattle raised for beef production to my knowledge are raised on what is known as a 'feed yard' an enclosed area where the cattle would be far less likely to encounter a rattlesnake as opposed to the old method of the free range cattle which were free to wander about a large parcel of land.
Question: I have heard that there are some very cruel methods of rounding up rattlesnakes, can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Answer: Generally the methods for the roundups are very similar but depending on locale they can vary. Generally speaking, rattlesnakes are collected from the wild and placed in coolers of ice to slow their reaction capability as 'safety procedure' for handling. They are not given access to food or water for weeks at some points because collectors want to get a jump on the competitors. It has been said (by competitors) that they even collect and import rattlesnakes from outside their own state where the roundup is being held.
In some locations the rattlesnakes mouths are sewn shut to prevent them from biting people so that people can have their picture taken with a live rattlesnake. The snakes are often handled in an improper manner such being kicked with a boot or agitated through constant prodding into finally striking. They are also housed during 'educational presentations' in a large dirt arena where they are then picked up (in my opinion the people handling them are not doing so properly) and then paraded about with their heads being held in the hands of the promoters.
After all of this, the snakes are then taken to the butcher where (in some roundups) the audience children, teens, and adults are allowed to decapitate the snake with a machete. In some roundups the children can place their hands in the blood of the snakes and leave their handprints on a white painted wall. As with all decapitation methods which is why it was outlawed for humans as cruel and inhumane the blade being used eventually becomes dull and sometimes takes two to three strikes to remove the head. The body of the snake (still writhing) is then taken to be publicly skinned and various organs harvested and the meat prepared and then offered for sale to eat.
Also during the roundups they are collecting venom from the snakes which is purportedly sold to antivenin manufacturers. There is some debate about whether the venom is being sold and to what purposes it would be used for. I have spoken with numerous colleagues of mine and in fact in one interview at Reptile Living Room with Mr. Carl Barden he states that the venom collected at roundups can be used by antivenin companies. There are numerous misnomers about why the venom cannot be used and I will dispel a few of those. My personal favorite was the venom cannot be used because it wasn't collected in a 'sterile environment and the people collecting it were not wearing lab coats.' To beging with lab coats (not worn by most if any venom collectors I know) do make collection a sterile event. The other misnomer is that the venom collected from the snakes is illegitimate because it's been collected from several species of rattlesnakes. Polyvalent antivenin means just that, it covers a number (poly) of species. Now then don't get me wrong, I am NOT defending these practices but am only stating facts. It's when we begin to believe the misinformation and repeat it that we defeat the cause of trying to stop these events because it makes those who are trying stop the events look as if they are unaware of the facts.
Question: What are some of the other consequences, on the environment, the ecological systems etc. of the roundup that are overlooked?
Answer: To be honest there are no scientifically documented population studies where we would be able to make an accurate presumption on what impacts these are having. However, it is in fact well documented that when you remove large portions of key predators (rattlesnakes) it will often impact the ecosystem through what is known as a trophic cascade. This essentially says when you remove a key element of the ecosystem every single part of the ecosystem falls apart and the environment changes dramatically and rapidly. I have written about this here for those interested http://bit.ly/UNyqkf
Question: Why do you think that this type of event is condoned or overlooked?
Answer: Roundups are overlooked in my observation as snakes are often seen as alien creatures because they don't look anything like humans. No arms and no legs and they move and do things that humans cannot. It's the over emphasized fear (often reinforced by mass media) that causes such feelings of dislike towards snakes in general. Not to mention that to those who live in the areas where roundups take place it's often part of the actual culture itself.
Question: Besides the obvious answer, why should someone in Alaska, New York City or Los Angeles should care about whether or not a rattlesnake round up is going on or not?
Answer: In all honesty, this is probably one of the toughest questions I get about roundups. As you said outside the obvious cruelty aspect of it, there is really no legitimate reason why people should care or take action. That is unless you take into account that when the species is made to go extinct in an area it really is gone forever. We can posit hundreds of impacts that will in fact have an effect world wide. Taking this to the very extreme, it is plausible that rodent borne disease would increase in these areas and that certain diseases (Black Plague) can easily spread due to the fact that the key predator has been removed. In reality though, there is the simple fact that it is cruel for humans to treat any animal as these roundups do. I would have to call on the simple practice of peoples empathy towards another living creature.
Question: What can people do, to stop rattlesnake round ups?
Answer: There's a lot people can do no matter where they live! We have a website http://www.riseagainstrattlesnakeroundups.com/ which has all the information needed to help save the snakes. With that said in any communication with either participants of roundups or the government offices that allow them, please always remain professional.
Question: Is there something else that you can tell our readers about this important topic that you would like to share?
Answer: In closing I think I would like to remind people that we as humans owe it to the animals to respect them and their habitat. They were here first, we are the invasive species that is taking their world away from them. Also in some roundup areas, there is a practice known as gassing where gasoline is poured down into rattlesnake dens to force the snakes out this is not only detrimental to the snakes but also makes the den uninhabitable for other species.
Thank you John!
Answer: How I became interested in reptiles? Hmm well, that's actually a loaded question. If I'm totally honest, it was originally for the money. While that saddens me deeply now looking back it is the honest answer. My mentor pulled a cash roll out of his pocket after a show once and I wanted to make that same money. I got into breeding and did a year or two of various colubrid snakes and various lizards. During that time, I figured out I wasn't into breeding. I mean the money was great don't get me wrong, but my heart wasn't there. The reptiles to me weren't just reptiles, they were animals I spent time with and I couldn't look at them as a commodity. Then and there, I decided that I would rather help people keep their own reptiles healthy and do so with proper information instead of what was being given out currently which was generally speaking 'guess work' by people who didn't have experience keeping reptiles but had read a care sheet.
Question: What are the most common myths about rattlesnakes that you often hear repeated?
Answer: OH BOY! Here we go...
1) Baby rattlesnakes are more dangerous because they cannot control their venom delivery
Fact: Baby rattlesnakes and all venomous snakes can control their venom when born.
Fact: Venom glands are directly proportionate to the size of the snake (Meaning in visual terms, if the adult has the venom gland the size of say a kidney bean. Babies would have venom gland the size of a BB.)
2) You can tell how old a rattlesnake is by counting the buttons of its tail
Fact: Rattlesnakes lose buttons all the time due to their terrain or even a potential predator taking one off.
Fact: Each time a rattlesnake sheds its skin it adds a button. Rattlesnakes can shed multiple times during the year depending on resources available.
Those would be the most often repeated outside of the occasional person who explains to me (typically an adult male for some reason) 3) "I was chased by a rattlesnake..."
Fact: Reptiles in the wild will generally avoid human contact and more than likely what has occurred is the human in question has stumbled across the snakes point of only escape and therefore perceives the snake as chasing them.
Question: What is your most interesting story involving a rattlesnake?
Answer: I would have to say most non-reptile people wouldn't get this story nor will those who don't know me personally. That said I will do my best to explain why this humorous afterwards. So here goes, Graham my long time field herping partner and I were in one of our typical herping spots and we came across a baby Southern Pacific rattlesnake Crotalus viridis helleri. We had come across these all the time. Now then at this time Graham and I were doing educational talks for various organizations in which we explained the native reptiles extolling their virtues as well as how to avoid rattlesnakes and training people who might encounter them ( Fire fighters, public workers as in Parks and Recreation staff) how to safely remove them from public places. In this training as well we spoke about treatment of snake bites in the field until medical services could be reached.
So we are looking at this baby rattlesnake and this brilliant idea hits me!
"Graham, you know we tell people about getting envenomated and such but neither of has ever been envenomated before. One of us should take a hit from this baby so we can talk realistically about what it's like."
"That's brilliant, the truck is close by and I could get you to the hospital in minutes, so go ahead." Graham says encouragingly.
"OK here it goes...' I say reaching down slowly but careful to stay out of strike range. "Wait, what if I have an allergic reaction?"
"It'll be ok we are close to the hospital."
"Oh OK. I respond reaching down again. But what if I have a serious reaction man, I could have irreparable damage."
"Oh yeah, I suppose you're right. That would kinda suck."
We went back and forth like this for nearly ten minutes and I obviously made the right decision that while it would be great to relay the story of "How I took one for the team" losing my life in the pursuit of experience wasn't exactly worth the risk. Now to those who know me, they know that I am very careful to only speak on topics that I have experienced so this would be slightly amusing to my friends as they could see me and Graham talking to one another no more than inches away from a venomous snake and both of trying to convince me that this was a great idea.
Question: What is a rattlesnake round up? Why do they happen?
Answer: A rattlesnake roundup is essentially a wholesale slaughter of thousands of pounds (average weight of adult rattlesnake 3-5 pounds) of rattlesnakes. Why do they happen is somewhat of a mystery really, From what I have been able to tell from my own research these started because cattle ranchers back when were losing cattle to rattlesnake envenomations. Probably during the time they were doing the doing the drive to market where free range cattle were being herded to the location where they were to be sold off to market. Most cattle raised for beef production to my knowledge are raised on what is known as a 'feed yard' an enclosed area where the cattle would be far less likely to encounter a rattlesnake as opposed to the old method of the free range cattle which were free to wander about a large parcel of land.
Question: I have heard that there are some very cruel methods of rounding up rattlesnakes, can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Answer: Generally the methods for the roundups are very similar but depending on locale they can vary. Generally speaking, rattlesnakes are collected from the wild and placed in coolers of ice to slow their reaction capability as 'safety procedure' for handling. They are not given access to food or water for weeks at some points because collectors want to get a jump on the competitors. It has been said (by competitors) that they even collect and import rattlesnakes from outside their own state where the roundup is being held.
In some locations the rattlesnakes mouths are sewn shut to prevent them from biting people so that people can have their picture taken with a live rattlesnake. The snakes are often handled in an improper manner such being kicked with a boot or agitated through constant prodding into finally striking. They are also housed during 'educational presentations' in a large dirt arena where they are then picked up (in my opinion the people handling them are not doing so properly) and then paraded about with their heads being held in the hands of the promoters.
After all of this, the snakes are then taken to the butcher where (in some roundups) the audience children, teens, and adults are allowed to decapitate the snake with a machete. In some roundups the children can place their hands in the blood of the snakes and leave their handprints on a white painted wall. As with all decapitation methods which is why it was outlawed for humans as cruel and inhumane the blade being used eventually becomes dull and sometimes takes two to three strikes to remove the head. The body of the snake (still writhing) is then taken to be publicly skinned and various organs harvested and the meat prepared and then offered for sale to eat.
Also during the roundups they are collecting venom from the snakes which is purportedly sold to antivenin manufacturers. There is some debate about whether the venom is being sold and to what purposes it would be used for. I have spoken with numerous colleagues of mine and in fact in one interview at Reptile Living Room with Mr. Carl Barden he states that the venom collected at roundups can be used by antivenin companies. There are numerous misnomers about why the venom cannot be used and I will dispel a few of those. My personal favorite was the venom cannot be used because it wasn't collected in a 'sterile environment and the people collecting it were not wearing lab coats.' To beging with lab coats (not worn by most if any venom collectors I know) do make collection a sterile event. The other misnomer is that the venom collected from the snakes is illegitimate because it's been collected from several species of rattlesnakes. Polyvalent antivenin means just that, it covers a number (poly) of species. Now then don't get me wrong, I am NOT defending these practices but am only stating facts. It's when we begin to believe the misinformation and repeat it that we defeat the cause of trying to stop these events because it makes those who are trying stop the events look as if they are unaware of the facts.
Question: What are some of the other consequences, on the environment, the ecological systems etc. of the roundup that are overlooked?
Answer: To be honest there are no scientifically documented population studies where we would be able to make an accurate presumption on what impacts these are having. However, it is in fact well documented that when you remove large portions of key predators (rattlesnakes) it will often impact the ecosystem through what is known as a trophic cascade. This essentially says when you remove a key element of the ecosystem every single part of the ecosystem falls apart and the environment changes dramatically and rapidly. I have written about this here for those interested http://bit.ly/UNyqkf
Question: Why do you think that this type of event is condoned or overlooked?
Answer: Roundups are overlooked in my observation as snakes are often seen as alien creatures because they don't look anything like humans. No arms and no legs and they move and do things that humans cannot. It's the over emphasized fear (often reinforced by mass media) that causes such feelings of dislike towards snakes in general. Not to mention that to those who live in the areas where roundups take place it's often part of the actual culture itself.
Question: Besides the obvious answer, why should someone in Alaska, New York City or Los Angeles should care about whether or not a rattlesnake round up is going on or not?
Answer: In all honesty, this is probably one of the toughest questions I get about roundups. As you said outside the obvious cruelty aspect of it, there is really no legitimate reason why people should care or take action. That is unless you take into account that when the species is made to go extinct in an area it really is gone forever. We can posit hundreds of impacts that will in fact have an effect world wide. Taking this to the very extreme, it is plausible that rodent borne disease would increase in these areas and that certain diseases (Black Plague) can easily spread due to the fact that the key predator has been removed. In reality though, there is the simple fact that it is cruel for humans to treat any animal as these roundups do. I would have to call on the simple practice of peoples empathy towards another living creature.
Question: What can people do, to stop rattlesnake round ups?
Answer: There's a lot people can do no matter where they live! We have a website http://www.riseagainstrattlesnakeroundups.com/ which has all the information needed to help save the snakes. With that said in any communication with either participants of roundups or the government offices that allow them, please always remain professional.
Question: Is there something else that you can tell our readers about this important topic that you would like to share?
Answer: In closing I think I would like to remind people that we as humans owe it to the animals to respect them and their habitat. They were here first, we are the invasive species that is taking their world away from them. Also in some roundup areas, there is a practice known as gassing where gasoline is poured down into rattlesnake dens to force the snakes out this is not only detrimental to the snakes but also makes the den uninhabitable for other species.
Thank you John!
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